Gen 2 Moveset/Usefulness Theorycraft
Just doing this for fun/out of boredom since all of the data already exists. We have moves of newer generations already, and estimations of stats/max cp already exist so this is quite simple to do. Please feel free to disagree / share your opinion / discuss.
Espeon: Confusion + Psychic (cant learn Psycho cut, so she will always be weaker than Alakazam. Even though her max cp could go +3000, shes still going to be quite useless. Confusion means she will not be a top attacker, and her lackluster hp and defence prevents from defending effectively.
Edit: There is a really really small chance that she could get Zen Headbutt, in that case she could be tier 1-1,5 attacker. But since all of Eeveelutions have only one quick move available, i feel like Confusion is the more likely option, sadly.)
Umbreon: Feint Attack + Dark Pulse (Good typing and good defensive stats, could be usable gym defender. His available movesets are not great, so not gonna beat Vaporeon. Candidate for second best Eeveelution, tier 2,5- 3 defender.)
Tyranitar: Bite + Stone Edge/EarthQuake/Dark Pulse (Hands down the best attacker due to massive cp, nothing really resists stab Bite and it is really great quick move. Stab Stone Edge is great charge move, he will wreck Dragonite and Snorlax and Lapras and Exeggutor so hard its not even fun. Needs his own tier as an attacker.)
Kingdra: Dragon Breath/Water Gun + Dragon Pulse/Hydro Pump (Epic typing, only weakness to Dragon and Fairy, and she has her own stab Dragon attacks. Her stats are decent, but not elite, so prolly tier 1,5-2 attacker/defender.)
Donphan: Mud Slap + Earthquake (Great stats and cp, decent moveset, tier 1-2 attacker)
Heracross: Rock Smash/Bug Bite + Megahorn/Night Slash/Brick Break (High max cp, quick move is hard to predict since he doesnt naturally learn any of the existing ones. Megahorn is strong, and if he ends up with a decent quick move, he could be even a tier 1 attacker.)
Ampharos: Thundershock + Discharge/Thunder (Elite stats, sadly does not learn Spark. Thundershock is quite weak move. Still gonna be the best Electric type (not counting legendaries), tier 2 attacker/defender.)
Blissey: Pound/Zen Headbutt + Hyper Beam/Dazzling Gleam (Best defender, massive hp and defence, only weakness to fighting and we have no strong fighting moves. Good luck killing that pink blob before timer runs out.)
Houndoom: Fire Fang/Bite + Flamethrower/Dark Pulse/Fire Blast (Going to get same moves as Arcanine, i think slightly weaker because offensive stats are identical and Arcanine has better hp and defence)
Scizor: Fury Cutter/Steel Wing+Bug Buzz/Xscissor/Night Slash (I think he will inherit Scyther's moveset, Steel Wing was given to Scyther because of his future evolution, makes no sense otherwise. Could be a really strong attacker with great typing, but im afraid he will get stuck with bad movesets and be quite useless. Stab Steel Wing is scary on a defending pokemon, but sadly Scizor's hp is lackluster and double weakness to fire will prevent him from being a top tier defender. If a miracle happens and he gets totally new move set with the best available moves Metal Claw + Bug Buzz/Xscissor, he could be a tier 1-1,5 attacker.)
Crobat: Wing Attack/Bite + Poison Fang/Air Cutter/Ominous Wind (Mediocre base stats, and if he inherits Golbat's moveset, not going to be useful at all. Those Charge moves are just sad. And Poison is not a good type yet since we lack the future generation Fairy types. Crobat always was a really strong pokemon in the original games due to his massive speed stat, sadly Go does not give that any credit.)
Steelix: Tackle/Rock Throw + Iron Head/Rock Slide/Stone Edge (Low hp and low attack, no stab moves at all except Iron Head if he inherits Onix's moveset, going to be useless. If he gets a new moveset with Mud Slap/Earthquake for example could be tier 2-3 attacker/defender)
Slowking: Water Gun/Confusion/Zen Headbutt + Psychic/Water Pulse/Ice Beam (Hard to predict moveset, going to be quite similar to Slowbro)
Porygon2: Tackle/Zen Headbutt + Signal Beam/Psybeam/Discharge (Hard to predict moveset, if he inherits Porygon's moveset, quite bad. His stats are good, so if he gets lucky with a better moveset, could be a decent attacker/defender.)
Typhlosion: Ember + Flamethrower/Fire Blast (Cant learn Fire Fang, Ember is bad quick move. Inferior to Arcanine and Houndoom.)
Meganium: Razor Leaf + Petal Blizzard/Solar Beam/Body Slam (Decent typing, decent stats, decent moveset. Going to be a decent Water counter, best pure Grass type. Tier 2,5)
Feraligatr: Bite/Water Gun + Hydro Pump/Ice Punch/Water Pulse (Yet another weaker Vaporeon. Decent stats all around but not going to make it.)
Granbull: Bite/Lick + Play Rough/Hyper Beam (Sadly lacking stab quick move (Fairy). Quite high cp, so could be the best Fairy type, tier 2,5-3)
Forretress: Bug Bite + Flash Cannon/Hyper Beam (Hard to predict moveset. Mediocre cp, double weakness to fire, not very useful prolly.)
Octillery: Water Gun + Ice Beam/Gunk Shot/ Water Pulse (Yet another weaker Vaporeon)
Lanturn: Water Gun/Spark + Discharge/Thunder/Hydro Pump (Massive HP, great typing, and is blessed with Spark. Attack and Defence is weak, so his max cp will not be high, but could be annoying gym defender similar to Wigglytuff. Tier 2,5-3.)
Ursaring: Lick/Feint Attack + Play Rough/Hyper Beam/Brick Break (Very hard to predict moveset. If he ends up with a good quick move he could be a decent general attacker due to high cp and neutral typing, but i feel like he is stuck with Lick/Feint Attack. Not useful.)
Skarmory: Steel Wing + Night Slash/Air Cutter/Flash Cannon (Very strong pokemon in the original games, sadly his hp is too low to be a top defender in Go. Useless, but still a cool pokemon anyway.)
Edit:
Bellossom: Razor Leaf + Solar Beam/Petal Blizzard (Lower cp than Vileplume, just a cool dex entry, nothing else^^)
Answers
I love your work. Since we already know there will be no new moves coming, im quite surprised nobody has made a list like this before. Im quite the nerd myself with the original games, and i have to say your list seems very accurate. I agree mostly about everything.
Some of the tiers seem a bit off, I think Espeon will be lower even if it gets Zen. And Lanturn wont make it to the Defender list. Just my opinion <3
About Tyranitar, I think you somewhat overvalued it.
A Stone Edge Tyranitar is, of course, a Tier 1 attacker, that I agree. Since there are no great Rock quick moves, so let's suppose he learns Bite.
- For Dragonite, his quick move would not do x1.25 damage against Dragonite, unlike DB/DC or DB/DP Dragonite. So Dragonite would still be Dragonite's most damage-efficient killer.
- For Lapras, he would be a good Lapras counter, but to "crash" it? It's at most x1.25 damage, not x1.56, besides he doesn't resist ice. Lapras's ice moves are very serious.
- For Snorlax, he can't even do x1.25 damage to Snorlax. His Rock typing resists Body Slam and Hyper Beam but is weak to Earthquake. So again, "crash" won't be the case.
- For Exeggutor, he does resist Exeggutor's quick moves, which is a plus. But Stone Edge only deals x1 damage. (Night Slash/Dark pulse are so bad that even with x1.25 it won't be as good as Stone Edge.)
In a word, I can't say that I agree with "...he will wreck Dragonite and Snorlax and Lapras and Exeggutor so hard its not even fun. Needs his own tier as an attacker."
I think i agree with you, my point was that Tyranitar will be the best available Gym Attacker because highest cp available and type advantage to most top Defenders, excluding Vaporeon. "Wrecking" or "Crushing" might be an overstatement, but i do think that he should be alone in highest tier for gym attacking. Only pokemon who is worthy to be in the same tier with Tyranitar is Dragonite in my opinion. And Tyranitar does have more advantageous matchups against the top Defenders. Thanks for your opinion :)
Edit: And about movesets, Tyranitar is unable to learn any rock type quick move. Bite is the only logical possibility.
They might give him a secondary quick attack with Fire Fang/Fury Cutter/Rock Smash if they want to troll the players, but Bite will be there, im sure.
I just ran some calculations and found that only a Bite / Stone Edge Tyranitar is really worth investing. Suppose neutral damage (all x1). In about 2/3 cases (depending on defender's defense) Tyranitar has slightly higher DPS than DB/DC Dragonite at the same level and with the same IVs.
Other Tyranitars, unfortunately, are not much of use, especially ones with Dark Pulse.
So that means that we will face the biggest gamble in the game ever: 1/6 chance of getting a top prize, 5/6 chance of losing everything.
Just my own speculation, and i would love to hear other opinions. This is a pokemon game after all, and so far all of the movesets are "correct" compared to original pokemon games. Most of the Pokemon have only few possible moves they can learn in this game, so it is possible to predict quite accurately what moves the new pokemon will have.
Edit: Im doing this just for fun, and this is pure theorycraft and speculation so dont take it too seriously. Especially the "Usefulness" and "Tiers" are very very wild guesses as other people did point out already. Still the movesets should be very accurate.
Not saying it's inaccurate, I was just wondering if Gen 2 movesets had already been decided, which would be unfortunate if it was, because there's a couple of types that have lackluster moves or just not enough options.
Plus it would have been nice if the starters were able to get their exclusive move for the 3rd stage evolution (Frenzy Plant / Blast Burn / Hydro Cannon). It kind of sucks having starters be so hard to evolve in this game and yet the effort isn't worth it in terms of combat effectiveness.
I have no idea how long move animations take to make, so I'm still hoping that they do decide to add some new moves, but if not, they could at least tweak the numbers of the current moves so those 4 or 5 bar charge moves aren't completely useless compared to using quick moves.
There will be new moves very likely some day, but Gen 2 release has nothing to do with it. We already have tons of moves from other generations, even from Gen 6. Data miners did not find new moves. New Gen 2 pokemon will share the same moves we have already, and it makes sense. And i do agree with you, it would be nice to have some special moves some day.
If new moves do come, imo it would make more sense to add them in before movesets for new Pokemon are determined, so that they don't have to change movesets afterwards and end up with a bunch of legacy Pokemon, unless they are planning on giving us TMs in that case original movesets don't really matter.
