Blissey weak to fight moves. When facing P/HB Blissey, Machamp is a given.
Due to recent advice seen on another question, I looked up fighting quick moves, and who has them. Doing this I saw that, even though not Fight type, if the pokemon's attack is high, then the move does greater damage than one with STAB (according to the ranking of damage given for the move).
So, with that, I looked at the pokemon with high Attack, and the fighting quick moves, with a high powered charged move w/stab, vice versa, or combo fighting movesets. And found that these are highly useful in beating Blisseys, especially when Machamp isn't available, or a mon that's more ZH/DG, ZH/P, resistant is needed.
This is a list of pokemon, outside of pure fighting types, that have a high base attack with combo fight moveset, or fight moves combined with a STAB move, that are good against the "feared" Blissey.
Pokemon [base attack]-(moveset)
Alakazam [271]-(psycho cut/focus blast) or (confusion/focus blast) Gengar [261]-(hex/focus blast) Pinsir [238]-(rock smash/close combat) or (bug bite/close combat) Ursaring [236]-(counter/close combat) or (metal claw/close combat) or (counter/hyper beam) Rhydon [222]-(rock smash/earthquake) or (rock smash/stone edge) Kabutops [220]-(rock smash/stone edge) Donphan [214]-(counter/earthquake) Granbull [212]-(bite/close combat) Ampharos [211]-(charge beam/focus blast) Rapidash [207]-(low kick/fire blast) Magmar [206]-(karate chop/fire blast) Electabuzz [198]-(low kick/thunder) Poliwrath [182]-(rock smash/dynamic punch) or (rock smash/hydro pump) or (bubble/dynamic punchMight have left some out, some of them are obvious, but this should help someone out there who hates Blissey because they think they are too hard to beat, and need to be nurfed. Also, a see a lot of complaints about movesets, there is always a use for them. I have also tried some of these against Blissey, and I was surprised with Rapidash. It fainted, even with dodging charged attacks (duh), but got Blissey down far enough to get knocked out with one charged move from my next pokemon. Hope this helps.
Neutral moves with stab are the same as fighting moves without stab though, the biggest omission you have there is flareon which everyone and their grandmother probably has at least 3.
Poliwrath downright sucks against blissey, I have a 2k one myself, not impressed, I'd rather take a vaporeon. Of your list though I suppose the top 6 are still usable against Blissey though.
I have a level 30 Rock Smash Dynamic Punch 2046 CP, precisely because ZH deals too much damage it is not worth using at all. If Blissey has normal moves then Rhydon is the better choice because he resists normal. Poli does great aganist tyranitar though, resisting every single move of tyranitar.
If you want to use a fighting type against Blissey I think Machamp and Heracross are the only real contenders because otherwise ZH will damage everyone else too much to benefit. Not to mention two of the 3 charge moves also go super effective into fighting.
That is why I have this list, for ZH.
Also, the base attack is in the formula to figuring out true DPS. STAB adds to the formula, but if the attack is high, then it can be greater than STAB.
Example:
Ursaring's (236 base attack) Counter true DPS is 16.67
Hitmontop's (173 base attack) Counter true DPS is 14.44
He's saying they're better than the moveset ranking suggest, at least that's how I interpreted it, because moveset rankings assume no type advantage, just whichever does the most DPS in a neutral setting.
But if a move does get type advantage (e.g. a non stab move that is super effective), then the rankings shift.
This is bad advice. In Pokemon Go, the Super Effective bonus is the same as the Same Type Attack Bonus. That means that a non-fighting type's fighting move will hit no harder than the same Pokemon's same-type move against Blissey.
Outside of Machamp and Heracross, who are fighting-types with strong fighting movesets, the best Pokemon for fighting Blissey are those who will deal it high neutral damage and have the bulk to survive a long fight.
These include:
Dragonite DB/DC; DT/O; DT/H (You need to dodge Dazzling Gleam)
Exeggutor with any quick move and Solar Beam
Tyranitar with Bite and Crunch or Stone Edge. He resists Blissey's ZH, Pound, HB and Psychic, but is vulnerable to DG.
And Flareom FS/OH
But if the fight move w/out STAB does more damage than the move with STAB, the. The fight move is better.
Ursaring C/CC is also a non stab moveset that has done wonders for me.
Focus Blast being only offered to non fight pokemon, and two high attack stat pokemon, Alakazam/Gengar...
As stated before, Counter for Ursaring deals greater damage than Counter from hitmontop.
Also, Low Kick from E-Buzz, with thunder, creates a highly effective combo.
Can't disagree with this reply any more than i do. Simulations (w/dodging) puts dragonite (all movesets) behind 6 of the ones on my list, against ZH/DG. Exeggutor (E/SoB) on par with 6 on the list when facing all movesets. And Tyranitar (B/C) is in the mix with the top 6 on the list, but (B/SE) barely hangs in there.
I applaud the OP and his list.
It's true several of these mons, if you happened to evolve a high level one, is usable for Blissey if you have a limited roster.
However, if we are advising spending valuable dust in some of these I would say hold off on that idea. As stated less that artfully above, many strong attackers can do better with basic stab movesets or just strong moves period. For example basically any HP Gyarados outperforms all of these pretty much. Or even semi high level Vapes. Others too. I approve of the list but not if we are advising investment.
Hmm actually on OP's point now I think he does have some merit- with regards to the HP Gyarados vs Ursaring comparison. Both have non stab moves but I think a 236 attack counter is better than a 237 attack bite/dragon tail
But of course HP gyarados is absolutely devastating whereas close combat on ursaring is...meh
The others on the list though (electabuzz low kick thunder...wth...) are very suspect
https://pokemongo.gamepress.gg/best-ways-beat-down-blissey
anything above the 100 line and left of the 65 line is reliable.
as personal notes flareon is easily available and does very well esp against DG blissey
espeon is also easily available and worked well against psychic blissey.
a quality t-rex (which I got lucky on and is my go to) or dragonite is the bomb (but watch for DG)
I think your list is a good one, but I see what I think to be two significant omissions. One is Flareon (Fire Spin + Overheat). The other is Scizor (any of its four A list move sets; I have Fury Cutter + Iron Head).
The bigger point I would like to make is that it can be very helpful to pick your attacker based on the charge move of the Blissey you are going to battle.
When I do not know the defending Blissey's charge move, I will use a Machamp because it has a plethora of both quick and charge fighting moves that enjoy both STAB on the part of Machamp and weakness on the part of Blissey.
When I do know the defending Blissey's charge move, I use the following because of type advantages:
Hyper Beam: Machamp (good quick and charge fighting moves to which Blissey is weak plus Machamp is neutral to Hyper Beam); Tyranitar because Tyranitar resists Hyper Beam (use the best move set you've got - I only have one "C level" one).
Dazzling Gleam: Ursaring (good quick and charge fighting moves to which Blissey is weak, plus Ursaring is neutral to Dazzling Gleam); also Flareon and Scizor because they resist Dazzling Gleam; Machamp, if needed, though it is weak to fairy moves.
Psychic: Exeggutor, which resists pyschic moves, with any quick move (but preferably Extrasensory or Confusion) + Solar Beam; Alakazam, which also resists psychic moves, with either of its quick moves plus Future Sight (inflicts damage quickly, and is a good closer in any situation); Scizor, which also resists psychic moves, with any of its four A list moves (which means if you have a Scizor, there is a 2/3rds chance you have an A list move) ("A list" according to Game Press ranking). By the way, Scizor resists ALL Blissey's moves. Lastly, Machamp, if needed, though it is weak to psychic moves.
I also use my Dragonite, except against Dazzling Gleam, to which it is weak. Usually, I reserve the Dragonite for clean-up, if needed.
The foregoing is predicated on knowing the charge move of the defending Blissey. How do I know that? Two ways. First, I keep a list. I often fight the same Blissey. I have taken to recording on my phone's notepad the charge move of each Blissey I encounter (at least from a recognizable player). Alternately, I send in a suicide Pokemon to find out.
Hope this help. Two months ago I could not kill a Blissey. Now I can devour them, and I am a mediocre dodge.
Just ran a simulation (w/dodging)
Machamp (C/CC) level 30 100% IVs
Ursaring (C/HB) level 30 100 % IVs
Blissey (ZH/DG) level 30 100 % IVs
Blissey beats Machamp with 125hp left, 64 seconds remaining
Blissey beats Ursaring with 28hp left, 62 seconds remaining.
Ursaring out performs Machamp with those movesets
I should have been more clear in the description. This list was for those that don't have strong, elite pokemon. And for those that felt they were dealt a bad moveset because of a fighting quick move, or charged move. And for those that caught a high leveled pokemon (ponyta, abra, etc) and evolved the undesirable moveset, no investment needed. Use them to your advantage, and take out Blisseys
I think you did a pretty good job in sorting through and finding the various Pokemon that have fighting moves. I do have a question for you. Is it not the case that it is the charge move that needs to be the fighting move, and that a quick move that is the fighting mover is only minimally to moderately helpful?
another way to look at it is a switch out against a multiple blissey gym. Use one on the list til it faints, then machamp come in and finish the job, then switch in another from the list on the next blissey, and have that same machamp come in and finish the job. Or use one from the list as your "move checker" but also have a chance to take out the blissey to bring down the gym level
