Top PvP Pokemon for 1500 CP Tier
I've been looking at the DPS/TDO spreads... and I'm wondering what the communities thoughts are on top mons for each tier.
My guesses:
1500 CP League:
Chansey Zen Headbutt / Dazzling Gleam
Metagross Zen Headbutt / Meteor Mash
Kingdra Dragon Breath / Hydro Pump
Azumarill Bubble / Play Rough
Venusaur Vine Whip / Frenzy Plant
Steelix Dragon Tail / Earthquake
Charizard Fire Spin / Blast Burn
My Reasoning: Two of the top neutral TDO mons (Chansey and Azumarill) sport fairy type charge moves which help to lock down their bad match-ups. This largely ousts Fighting and Dark types from the 1500 CP meta. It also boosts the relevance of Steel types, and helps exclude dragon types from the meta. Metagross easily steps into its position in the meta to punish Chansey and Azumarill, and yet with Fighting and Dark both ousted, this leaves fire types as a huge contender for being top tier, as they both resist fairy type moves and handle metagross. Charizard seems the best contender for this slot, sporting a better moveset than typhlosion and an incidental resistance to ground which might be relevant if steelix makes its way into the meta as... well a METAgross breaker. Kingdra may be slightly preferable to Azumarill, as it sports a double resistance to fire, has no weakness to grass, and has superior performance against Venusaur and Metagross, who would resist the fairy type moves of Azumarill and Chansey. Ironically, Kingdra struggles most against Azumarill and Chansey themselves, so its hold on the meta game may be tenuous at best.
What are your guys' thoughts? How will the 1500 CP Meta shake out?
Answers
Tangela I'm not so sure of... I think Meganium with Frenzy Plant largely outclasses it.
Wigglytuff might be ok, but I feel like it similarly gets outclassed by Chansey.
Did you perhaps mean Poliwhirl/Poliwrath instead of poliwag? Both have higher TDO and Poliwrath might be an interesting offensive contender with its wide type coverage. Interesting inclusion.
Maybe you're right. I was just going with gut feel, based on the fact that Tangela has two of the best grass charge moves other than FP, along with a higher attack stat which is amplified by the fact that Tangela can reach a higher level at CP 1500. But I could be wrong.
I think there will be some nuances to PvP, beyond just maximizing TDO, which haven't been worked out yet. The important thing isn't how long you can survive; it's whether you can survive until you kill the other guy.
One other point on Wiggly vs Chansey...I did use Chansey at times for prestiging, but in some cases Chansey couldn't do enough damage before the timer ran out...that is why Wiggly became the MvP.
We don't know how PvP works, but it may be that Chansey can't output enough dps, especially if the opponent can dodge charges
Wiggly was one of my best prestigers as well, and I had a small army of them at various CP levels. However, most of them had P/HB, and I think it is safe to say that HB will not be particularly good for PvP. I suppose play rough will be pretty good, but DG not so much. The dodgeability of charge moves will matter in PvP, unlike prestiging.
The idea of a tier list like this illustrates what is wrong with having a CP cap on individual pokemon, as opposed to a total CP cap for a 3-mon team. We are likely going to end up with the majority of knowledgeable players selecting their teams from a very short list of the most effective pokemon at a given CP level. And most pokemon will be ineffective or unusable.
A CP 2700 Mew might be a great mon to use in a 3-mon team where the total CP must be <7500, but it will have no use at all in the coming PvP system as planned.
Well, you'd essentially be limiting yourself to two strong pokemon instead of three balanced ones. A CP 2500 FS/O Flareon or PC/FB Mewtwo could handle the maxed Metagross, and a CP 2500 B/C Ttar or S/FP Houndoom could handle the Mewtwo, leaving a third CP 2500 generalist mon for backup, to mop up where needed. All pokemon have effective counters, and three balanced, varied pokemon might be better than two very strong ones.
If you take it to the extreme, would a maxed PC/SB Mewtwo plus two Shuckles be stronger than three balanced CP 1500 pokemon? Maybe, maybe not, but it would allow for a lot more diversity and different potential strategies.
edit to the above: PC/FB Mewtwo against Metagross was not a good choice, but I was just trying to make the point that every mon has counters, and It's not clear to me that spreading your 7500 total CP among two pokemon is better than spreading it among three. Another way to look at it is, which team would be better: (1) CP 4000 PC/SB Mewtwo, CP 3490 BP/MM Metagross, and CP 10 Weedle; or (2) CP 2500 PC/SB Mewtwo, CP 2500 BP/MM Metagross, and CP 2500 L/BS Snorlax? I don't know the answer offhand, but the idea opens up a lot more possibilities than a CP cap on individual pokemon.
My thoughts......don’t know the mechanics off it ... dont know when it’s coming...don’t know if there is going to be any sort of award for doing battles besides a badge.... is it going to cost stardust to enter the battle field? ..... are we going to be limited to one battle a day? .... if everyone is going to be using the exact same Pokémon and know the results before the battle begins how much fun is it going to be any way?.... in other words I’m not wasting my time thinking about PVP in any league till we know more.... frankly I suggest everyone else does the same
My my... you're right. Although... BB charizard has ever so slightly higher TDO than moltres and a better fire moveset... I think he might still edge moltres out, especially since sky attack doesn't really provide any relevant type coverage when compared with blast burn, unless im completely wrong about fighting be mostly bad as a typing in the 1500CP league.
If you're going to include Metagross on the list (and Kingdra, Venusaur, and Charizard to a lesser extent) - would that make Ditto a possibility? He'll easily sweep 1500CP if he gets to transform to any of those.
You'd need the Chansey / Azurmarill / Steelix almost mandatory on your team to avoid the Ditto sweep. Which I agree makes this meta pretty interesting. It's unfortunate that a single pokemon will invalidate a lot of 1500CP contenders.
