The Supreme Point and Its Applications

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A supreme point is the minimum level at which a Pokemon is superior to all other species. Obviously, not all Pokemon have supreme points; only a few, usually best of their type, do. A supreme point is often matchup dependent; not every matchup has a counter who is best at both DPS and TDO. Regarding this, the supreme point can be divided into two subclasses: DPS supreme point and TDO supreme point.

Learning about supreme points is helpful because:

  • It helps you make decisions on investing resources in that Pokemon

  • It measures a Pokemon’s relative strength

  • It suggests that transferring some weather-boosted caught Legendaries is a bad idea (Important!)

This guide will first introduce the method to find supreme points, then examine some of the most relevant best typers’ supreme points, and finally discuss a strategy to manage your raid counters lineup.

Level Curve

Within the scope of this article, a "level curve" is the graph of the relationship between a Pokemon’s level and its performance (measured in either DPS or TDO). It is the basic tool for us to analyze a Pokemon’s supreme point, should there be any.

Let’s use Kyogre as an example. Using the simulation data of a Kyogre team fighting a Fire Spin/Flamethrower Tier 5 Flareon, the following level curves are generated:

Next, we need to find the performance of the second-best counters - Gyarados and Vaporeon, at level 40. Simulations suggest that when fighting the same Flareon boss, a team of maxed Gyarados will have a DPS of 17.66 and a team of maxed Vaporeon will have a TDO of 29.2. Plot the lines into the above graph, we have:

We can see that the DPS crossover is around level 27 and the TDO crossover is around level 29.5. Hence we can conclude that the DPS supreme point of Kyogre (when fighting a Flareon) is 27, the TDO supreme point is 29.5, and hence the absolute supreme point is 29.5.

While it is tempting the conclusion that a level 29.5 Kyogre is better than any other Water-type in both DPS and TDO, we must never forget that supreme point is matchup dependent. For example, when fighting a Mud Slap/Earthquake Golem, Gyarados will have the highest TDO and has its own TDO supreme point at level 28:

While TDO supreme points are often matchup dependent, DPS supreme points are much less so. Nevertheless, we know have the tools to find the supreme points.

Supreme Points of Select Legendaries

The “Big Four” - Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza and Mewtwo - are the strongest Legendaries up to date. While most players are willing to have more of them maxed, the requirement on Rare Candies is serious. Taking just one of them from Level 20/25 to Level 40 will already take dozens of raids to replenish the candy cost. Some are considering a “split”: instead of taking one to max, taking several to high 30s or exactly level 30 seems to be more cost-efficient. However, at the same time, the powered up Legendary must still be stronger than other Pokemon of the same type. So, where do you stop the leveling? Supreme points give you the answer!

As shown before, supreme points are matchup dependent. That said, we can still find the general supreme points against a hypothetical neutral enemy, and the results would still be meaningful. Using the level curve method, the Big Four along with some other relevant Legendary’s general supreme points are summarized in the table below, compared to the best non-Legendary Pokemon of their type.

Pokemon DPS Supreme Point TDO Supreme Point
Groudon 22.5 27
Kyogre 27 29.5
Rayquaza* 34 N/A
Mewtwo 33.5 31.5
Moltres 33.5 31.5
Entei N/A 27.5
Raikou 25 25.5

*Note: 1. Rayquaza is evaluated as a Dragon-type specialist. As for its role as a Flying-type specialist, it will be discussed later.

2. The matchup to evaluate Moltres and Flareon is a Bullet Punch/Night Slash Scizor. In other matchups, the TDO Supreme Point will vary.

The above table compared the Legendary to their own type, but in reality, we may have optimal counters from other types. Therefore, we need to look outside of the type and see the whole picture.

Let’s look at the (projected) Regirock counter spectrum, from our own RyanSwag:

As we can see, Kyogre has the highest DPS while Groudon has the highest TDO. Of the alternatives, Machamp has the highest DPS while Metagross has the highest TDO. Although Kyogre surpasses Gyarados at around level 27, it needs more power-ups to surpass Machamp in DPS, so does Groudon to surpass Metagross in TDO. In fact, it can be shown that Kyogre’s DPS supreme point is 36 (also the breakpoint of Waterfall); the TDO supreme point of Groudon is 30.5 (also the breakpoint of Mud Shot). The takeaway is that if you are considering powering up a Kyogre to fight Regirock, you should power it above the supreme point. Otherwise, you may be better off just using Machamp, whose candies are much more accessible.

Another case study is the future Virizion (Grass and Fighting-type Legendary in Gen 5) raid. For it, Flying-types will be most needed, and a double Flying-type moveset Rayquaza will roar. In this fight, its DPS supreme point is 24 - at level 24, Rayquaza already surpasses a maxed Mewtwo in DPS! Now that the Rayquaza raid is about to come to an end, you should consider holding tight on your boosted Rayquaza.


In essence, a supreme point is the level at which the Pokemon starts to be supreme. The rule of thumb is that you should always go for powering above the supreme point if you decide to invest in a Legendary, otherwise there seems to be no point of powering at all because you can find cheap alternatives or just use a generalist. Also keep future proofing in mind; some current best Pokemon of their type will lose their supreme position.

We hope that this guide has helped you make decisions on investing in Legendary. Don’t forget to check back for more amazing guides to come!