DPE vs. DPS
Hey all, I've been a lurker at Gamepress for a while and figured a question was as good a way as any to propose an idea to the site admins.
Damage-per-energy (DPE) is an incredibly useful consideration for trainers to make in the new metagame, with charge moves being as powerful as they are. Moreover, if you normalize this over cool down time (DPE/CD), you get a great list of top-tier defending moves.
It'd be great to see a DPE column (and/or maybe even a DPE/CD) included in the Gamepress moves list.
I've got a blog where I've written up the utility of this proposal.
http://letspokego.blogspot.ca/2017/03/dpe-vs-dps-and-new-moves.html
My blog is mostly discussion, not the hard data that Gamepress likes to cover. I'd host a move list myself, but Gamepress is such a great resource I'd much rather keep pointing people to you guys. Let me know what you think!
Cheers,
Let's GO
Edit: I've since updated this post with the addition of DPE/CD, a metric I find predicts useful defending charge moves to great effect.
Answers
without doing any math to prove it, I would suppose that quick moves with high EPS (for example fury cutter) pair up well with charge moves with good DPE and quick moves with high DPS and lower EPS (like rock throw or confusion) pair up better with charge moves with high DPS
All of this is theory though, in the end it depends in your playstyle. If you dodge all attacks, it's way better to have moves that can help you with your dodging tempo than going with the math and the moveset rating. After all the math done to calculate those numbers aren't expecting you to fit 2 attacks and then wait idle cause you can't fit a 3rd before dodging
Especially useful is DPE/Cooldown.
Just look at this list (img attached) of moves sorted by DPE/second. Moves like Dragon Claw and Body Slam (which are definitively the best defending moves for their Pokemon) top the list. But what's helpful is seeing how the move changes made things like Psyshock and Ice Punch rival Body Slam.
Yes, it sounds somehow reasonable what this guy writes, but it is unfortunately wrong. He does not even tell whether he is speaking of attacking or defending.
Fortunately, Gamepress will make their own research. Any battle simulator or each table that takes real battle mechanics into account can easily prove the proposed metrics to be wrong.
I can give a reasonable metrics to evaluate charged moves for attack, it takes into account energy, time and damage, but does this in a more reasonable way.
I just weave my charged attack with an average quick attack (10 DPS / 10 EPS) and adjust DPE with the damage quick move would do and Energy quick move would provide during Charged attack
DPE_ad = Damage per Energy adjusted
Tc = Time charged attack
Dc = Damage charged attack
Ec = Energy charged attack
DPE_ad = (Dc - 10 * Tc) / (Ec + 10 * Tc)
This metrics puts Solar Beam and Shadow Ball in front, this is more reasonable than those 3-Bar-moves.
Footnote: This only works for evaluation Charged Moves for attack
Just got re-interested in this post when I saw Gamepress post a DPE*DPS article. I'm a year late, but thought I'd still reply:
Yeah, I never explicitly stated attacker vs. defender, but at the time I was always focused on defenders, and have the title: "Charge moves sorted by DPE / Cooldown: a metric for judging top-tier defensive charge moves; and it ain't half bad at judging attacking charge moves either!" Implying its primary use was for judging defensive moves.
For attacking moves, yeah your formula works better :) The new proposal of DPE*DPS is interesting, but I think it still suffers a bit. I think the commenter below touched on a big flaw in my formula, because I didn't adjust for multiple time-to-attacks in multiple charge bars.
A year late in responding but... I did! Thanks for the heads up :)
Though I suppose ignoring the time to attack for multi-bar moves worked well for ranking defensive moves, so I was satisfied with the outcome, haha. Didn't really think about that flaw in the methodology.
But if you factor in time per charge-move that'd definitely make it more appropriate for ranking attacks. I think I'll take some time to look that over with a modern update and re-write this analysis to focus on attacking moves (which are way more important in the modern metagame).
Update: Just tried to account for use of multiple charge bars by taking DPE/(cooldown*number of charge bars) but didn't get particularly promising results. Brave Bird ranks 3rd, while other moves like Close Combat outrank Dynamic Punch.
I played around a bunch, and thought for a bit about what we were trying to accomplish. Essentially... we want to reward high power, high DPE, and punish high cooldown.
Edit - I've written up a new article focused on attacking moves :-)
http://letspokego.blogspot.ch/2018/04/a-new-approach-to-dpe-damagecycle.html
The formula I use is:
Damage/Cycle = Damage by charge moves + Damage by quick moves + Energy gained by quick moves * DPE of the charge move
Where:
CBs = # of charge bars
POWER = The move's base power
TIME = The cool down of a move
10s = 10 seconds, my approximation of a cycle's worth of time
10dps = I've inserted a 10 DPS move here
10eps = I've inserted a 10 energy-per-second (EPS) move here
Damage/Cycle = (POWER * CBs) + ((10s - TIME * CBs) * 10dps) + ((10s - TIME * CBs) * 10eps)*(DPE)
